the sad truth is, that people don't care about the girls that died, but only about trash talking the US and that's the only reason people talk about them.

And please don't bother pretending that's not the case. You didn't care about a single Iranian life before the war. You haven't even bothered listening to any Iranian person.

I'm just disappointed by the hypocrisy and the instrumentalization of lives and deaths.

We should do better.

@karolherbst I think... You should have put those first two paragraphs in the first person singular.

The third paragraph in the first person plural.

The last paragraph, again, in first person singular.

Don't blame other people you don't know for what you don't know they are thinking or caring about. Or can handle.

@halla I completely understand that it's hard being confronted with the reality that internalized racism is leading one to do or say certain things and that being confronted with that reality the normal urge is to be defensive or pretend it's totally not like that.

I get that.

It's not something that's easy to accept. But we all have to start with ourselves, so much is true. And yet I can be disappointed that many here don't.

@karolherbst it's already tiring to see from outside iran, ever since the US/UK managed to get it to be a dictatorial state, so I can't imagine iranians' point of view must be even more tiring.

@karolherbst all these wars, these have always been done with zero interest for the actual civilians in mind.

Think about the civilians

@karolherbst US/UK/etc thinking only about their own interests regardless of civilian casualties or longterm dictatorship is the reason why we are in this situation today.

@fun well I can only recommend to talk with Iranian people about this directly.

@karolherbst I do know one iranian person, however I did not hear anything from him currently, IIRC iran is ongoing an internet blackout or he's probably busy right now

@fun right, but there are a few outside of Iran that have contact with people inside.

There is prma@chaos.social and hojjat@fosstodon.org I've chatted with recently and they also talked about the situation on a few other occasions.

@fun but the problem is that most aren't on mastodon (for various legitimate reasons), and talk about the situation on instagram instead.

@karolherbst @fun
Iranian here on Mastodon. I mentioned to a lady poet here that Iran is oppressive and evil to its own people. I get called “unvaccinated” and blocked immediately, with no further questions or anything. Like ask how tf I know that?
I have lived the first 19 years of my life inside Iran. I have firsthand experience. But the western progressive “intellectual” can’t hear my voice.
Can’t express how disappointing it is.

@noomsh @fun yeah... my feeling is, that many just want to blame the US and Israel for all evil things happening. If any other country would have attacked, they wouldn't even talk about it at all.

And it's sad that those don't even want to reflect on their own racism and anti-semitism, which they show both with this kind of behavior, while calling out "fash" people elsewhere and think they are doing good.

And that makes them also fall for propaganda by the Iranian regime.

@karolherbst @noomsh I mean, the US and Israel aren't the good guys for sure, they've been doing a genocide in Gaza for a long time now.
But the Iranian govt aren't the good guys either.

We should call out *any* and *all* countries doing evil things for sure. I mentioned the US and Israel, but they're clearly not the only evil countries doing evil things. Not being the US or Israel does not give you a free pass to do whatever you want.

@karolherbst @noomsh Everyone is subject to international laws.

@fun @noomsh > We should call out *any* and *all* countries doing evil things for sure.

and how does that help? Hasn't helped so far anywhere besides being virtue signalling.

I've heard from many Iranian people at the start of the war, that the US and Israel attack could finally mean their freedom from the regime.

That's more hope they ever got from us calling out the tyrants on social media.

And some also didn't care if it's an international law violation or not.

@karolherbst @noomsh Not calling out the Iran govt for the evil things they do means less people are aware of the iran people's suffering?

@karolherbst @noomsh and if people don't know, they won't act

@fun @noomsh what does that change?

Like people here are aware and governments took "actions". But nothing helped really? Like the people are still suppressed.

And if it comes to immigration, that's kinda a worse issue, so even if we all agree that the Iranian people are really suffering, if at the same time we restrict immigration and asylum, then it's kinda pointless?

Like sure, people should be aware, but awareness on social media won't really help alone.

@karolherbst @noomsh do protests in support of the Iranian people and immigration, talk/listen to iranian people, talk about it not just on social media, but also IRL, etc

Awareness isn't the end goal, it's only one step.

@noomsh @karolherbst stay safe, if you still live there or know people that still live there

I think your POV matters a lot in better understanding the situation, it's really disappointing to not be heard, especially when people are talking about your country and its oppressive tactics.

@noomsh @karolherbst it makes literally no sense to silence iranian people when at the same time briefly talking *about* them

like you can't have a voice, a say at what people tell about you

@fun @noomsh it also makes no sense to be condescending towards Iranian people while talking about how Iranian people are supposed to feel and getting told otherwise 🙃

and yet here we are...

I don't even think they see it at silencing, they just think that the real evil (that is, the US and Israel) must be fought at all costs and Iran is the secret bulwark against them (literal take I've seen).

Some just have a very twisted understanding of what's going on there.

@fun @noomsh but my point is, it's not our place to tell how Iranian people should feel about any of this and we should just give them the platform to speak for themselves.

And that also includes criticizing the US and Israel in their stead. Iranian people are capable of doing just that themselves if they want to. Some do, some don't.

And all I can really do is to listen and share their voices.

@karolherbst @noomsh

> And all I can really do is to listen and share their voices.

exactly, that's what we should do

@fun @karolherbst
Thank you. I appreciare your approach to this entire thing.
Yes, idk if “being aware” changes anything or tbh, I’ve been trying to figure out what can actually help. But i do think it’s important for truths to be known in general.
And I’m especially annoyed when people call themselves “freedom fighter” or progressive or etc. while completely unable to entertain the idea that islamic republic is evil.

@fun @karolherbst

There's a thread you may be interested in here - it starts with me (no Iranian connection), but aims to listen to Iranian responses:
https://framapiaf.org/@boud/116386282253152127

@noomsh might wish to add something to that thread.

@boud @fun @karolherbst
Thank you for all you do.
I did actually see this petition and thread a few days ago when you were talking about it. I guess i’m just not clear who the audience for this is, Iran’s government?! Because as others mentioned, that would be a joke. I don’t think you can simply “ask” this government something. They are partially destroying their own economy with this internet shutdown but don’t care.

@boud @fun @karolherbst
As a side note, this government has lost all legitimacy for me. I want them gone. This past January broke me, like it broke millions of others. That’s why I have a lukewarm reaction to anything or anyone attempting to nicely ask them something. Though I understand my strong emotional reaction is probably keeping me from being able to make the best decisions regarding this whole mess.

@noomsh I can only speculate on possible communication chains [8] in the system [4] that might end up sufficiently pressuring the IRI govt to #OpenTheIranianInternet.

#HumesParadox [6]: the post-Ali-Khamenei leaders still require cooperation. Several techies need to type (or not type) commands with root access (or plug in cables). Others need to order or threaten them.

@fun @karolherbst

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_system_approach_to_peace_and_armed_conflict

[6] https://web.archive.org/web/20260108015644/https://chomsky.info/199107__/

[8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_degrees_of_separation

@noomsh As I understand it, the petition is only one step in the "six degrees of separation". Whether it goes through to the "sixth step" depends on people/groups who may choose to propagate it further. Whether the "sixth step" is a geek finally deciding that disobedience is worth the risk, or a family member or friend shouting furiously at the geek, or is a formal administrative command, it will likely be different to the "asking nicely" of the petition.

@fun @karolherbst