Also, given recent events: I know that Matrix is far from perfect but please fedi for a brief moment can we stop constantly hating it publicly???

While every (open) option for a platform to move to is a mess, Matrix is probably the least terrible option for people who have been using Discord.

@hexaheximal it would be easier to do this if everything matrix-related wasn't so constantly broken

@noisytoot From my experience, the issues haven't even been with Matrix but rather the official implementations. I don't use Element anymore, nor do I use Synapse anymore... and the problems just went away for me.

@hexaheximal I use Nheko and Conduit and I have had plenty of problems. For instance:

• Currently I can’t see any quotes in Nheko
• Nheko sometimes does [crypto] [critical] failed to restore olm account: unpickle: BAD_ACCOUNT_KEY and loses its OLM keys
• E2EE is always broken and I cannot get Nheko and Element to verify each other
• Heisenbridge can’t get displaynames for non-local users after they’ve joined so all displaynames appear to IRC-bridged users as an empty string unless they joined since the bridge restarted
• Sometimes room/space joins appear take too long/appear to never happen and you need to restart the client or re-log-in due to a race condition in the database of conduit derivatives (I also had this issue with Cinny and Continuwuity on bundernet.org)
• Messages taking 10+ minutes to arrive sometimes
• Conduit sometimes starts taking 10+ minutes to respond to requests so they time out and it needs to be restarted
• Conduit/RocksDB generally uses too much RAM (multiple gigabytes, compared to prosody which is using only a few megabytes)

@noisytoot That's honestly quite odd. I use a lot of the same things but just don't have those issues.

Although, notable exception: Joining rooms being broken and getting stuck on loading. That is a problem that I have been *constantly* dealing with. Invites are also similarly broken.

@noisytoot Despite that though, from what I have seen I do believe that continuwuity is doing a really good job of making Matrix at least slightly less of a mess - it's *certainly* better than Synapse.

@noisytoot I also remember trying out Dendrite years ago, but it seems to be basically dead now. :(

@hexaheximal

🔒 Unable to decrypt message

@noisytoot @hexaheximal Well, Conduit has barely been maintained for a couple of years now. Tuwunel is the official successor (at least that's what they claim on their website). I'm having a better experience with it than conduit, that's for sure.

@hexaheximal

How's matrix's moderation tools?

There's someone who likes posting gore to public matrix and xmpp channels, some of the most maintained xmpp clients implemented some moderation tools where an admin can delete individual posts or everything from some account.

It unfortunately only works with some clients, but I pretty quickly learned to switch to the clients that do support moderation.

I thought matrix uses a blockchain/git like synchronization algorithm, so I think deleting messages is harder to do.

(Though on the plus side, If you want the message history it does get synced between servers and rooms can stay up if one server goes down.)

For what it's worth, I kind of think from the xmpp space the client that's got the best chance to be called discord like is movim.

https://movim.eu/

@hexaheximal

And to make things more confusing apparently someone figured out how to add voice chat to IRC.

https://timeloop.cafe/@alienghic/116043130727663109

@hexaheximal @noisytoot I think the main issue is people comparing the UX in encrypted rooms with other messaging app in clear text.

I have often seen "I have problems to decrypt stuff with matrix, I think it is better to use [insert unencrypted IM app]". But they are 2 different use cases

Honestly, I find that matrix for public rooms (so, like discord) works well

@hexaheximal @noisytoot Recent versions of the official apps have finally fix most of decryption failure. I haven't seen one for a moment now. But that meme will be hard to forget 😅

@przmk @hexaheximal

Tuwunel is the official successor

It is not, you are confusing Conduit with Conduwuit. Conduit is still maintained.

I would like to switch to Continuwuity (the other Conduwuit fork) but neither that nor Tuwunel is currently an option anyway because the database is incompatible with the latest version of Conduit and there is currently no way to migrate.

@S1m @hexaheximal I don't use the official apps (except for mobile currently) because I won't touch Electron with a three-metre pole. (I tried Element Web and couldn't paste anything, and I'd rather not use a web client anyway.)

@S1m @hexaheximal I have also had fewer issues with XMPP encryption (OMEMO) than with Matrix encryption.

@noisytoot @hexaheximal You're right, I thought it was a successor to Conduit, my bad!

Conduit's been getting some sporadic commits here and there but hasn't received any big changes for a long time. Not surprising that the experience is pretty bad given the room upgrades and other new Matrix MSCs that were implemented on other servers.

As for the lack of migration path, I agree, it sucks.

@hexaheximal Dendrite apparently does not work over IPv6 in its default configuration so I cannot take it seriously

@hexaheximal
[I disagree](https://joinjabber.org/), #XMPP is an open standard that has existed way before matrix and is still in use.

@0x0 As someone who uses both XMPP and Matrix: No.

While XMPP is less complex on a protocol level, it *still* has terrible client support - the only good client that I was able to get working was Gajim, and the only web client that doesn't *completely* suck is Movim, but it lacks every feature people actually care about.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: XMPP will *never* be a viable replacement for Discord without a practical web client. Matrix was built with that in mind.

@hexaheximal @0x0 if only matrix people had spent all that money on developing better XMPP clients instead of NIH'ing their own protocol

@hexaheximal
XMPP _is_ a protocol.
Dunno about that "never" bit, kinda odd.