EDIT: please don't use the comments to attack grapheneos or Daniel Micay, that's literally doing the thing they are accusing me and the postmarketos community of doing! We are better than that.

The post that motivated me to write this has been deleted, I would much rather live and let live

To Daniel and the rest of the grapheneOS team: I would very much like to clear this matter up, maybe a discussion with a neutral moderator present? I'm open to ideas. You can reach me via email: kcxt@postmarketos.org

I was 21 back when the events i described below happened, I'm not going to pretend I did nothing wrong, but I certainly didn't intend or expect for events to play out the way they did. If i'm forever marred with no opportunity for recourse then so be it, but I would rather avoid that outcome since it clearly hasn't gone great so far.

I want to be able to collaborate and lift each other up, GrapheneOS have done a lot of great work, their web flasher genuinely blew me away when i used it back in 2022. It directly inspired flash.postmarketos.org!

---

I've spent the last 3 years explicitly avoiding talking about GrapheneOS or Daniel Micay online because I assumed good faith after last time when he said my behavior (dunking on him on twitter) was deeply distressing to him.

I'm breaking my vow of silence cuz I'm feeling kinda gaslit right now, I'm pretty sure I don't deserve this shit

https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/115867751108659970

@cas god damn it, I just ditched the iPhone for a fucking graphene phone, but this isn't going to stand

@cas Wow that thread takes a hard turn. Sad to see.

@cas the literal first reply in that thread very specifically mentions calyxos as a good foss contributor which is completely disqualifying https://friendica.world/display/84b6ef2b-1069-5d9b-e887-023482899063 this post mentions having an iphone that could do payments with "her first real paycheck" https://donotsta.re/objects/6b291bfb-22e8-4f1c-94be-dc62429ff64f as if this were a profoundly transformative experience. i have never understood why you continued to interact with craftyguy who seems kind of rude a lot. i don't understand what this is all about and elle at do not stare is clearly a very experienced concern troll who is picking a fight and delighted to see it worked.

you have been posting negativity about grapheneos for years and it's very strange to hear this thread of all things described in this way and it reminds me of hector marcan's attempt to stop rust in linux from happening by wielding the language of trauma so skillfully like he was doing something deeply important in working on a linux you literally can't use unless you have at least a thousand dollars for a recent ARM macbook and think using the most popular programming language specifically after google and microsoft started pouring immense sums of money to undermine the queer revolution that threatened to actually secure the internet and not before when google literally bought off twitter and mozilla in order to stop us from building the future they hated

you can't just post a vague reply like this in response to micay successfully getting triggered by the post that said "yeah credit cards work on iphones and i'm absolutely uninterested in interrogating why that is" in a thread that begins by mentioning calyxos. you know for a fact how apple has been taking credit for the work of grapheneos (micay pathologically doesn't attribute success to his own contributions but to the project. withoutboats casually mentioned how an email from micay was the reason for the rust iterator design). have you ever had that shit happen to you? it's fucking devastating. i don't understand why you're corroborating elle's approach of very clearly working to undermine the public image of someone whose worst sin is keeping receipts. looks so fucking bad for you to choose that one to quote of all things

please reconsider this. you do good work but if you can't give up this fixation on micay that will not be good for you or anyone else. people i actually respect in security regularly describe postmarketos as the most exciting project (i can very easily find you a post from rich felker saying exactly this).

@cas holy smokes, can't believe I seriously considered using GrapheneOS before Linux on mobile felt daily-driver ready for me.

The thread seems to be gone now (conveniently?).

@cas The post is deleted now and I'm not seeing any archived snapshots where I looked

@cas post deleted, but I’m very curious to see since I planned on getting a Graphene phone for myself

@cas anyone got an archive link or screenshots? the post seems to be deleted

@cas Damn, yeah you do not deserve any of this stuff. Sorry that happened.

Every time I want to do something with GrapheneOS I'm reminded by the absolutely unhinged amount of drama that's just constantly happening in the background there and just ... don't

@kate @cas

That particular post might be gone, but if you browse that account's replies timeline.... Wow.

@neil
It's been an on-going issue. Friends have been berated for what I would call innocent comment. Which isn't right or proportionate. But I've followed various GOS accounts over the years and the shit they've been through is off the scale. I can understand the extreme defensiveness but whoever is running that account needs to take some time out imho.
@kate @cas

@neil @kate @cas the deletion didn't propagate to my client yet somehow

@piegames @neil @cas what the hell

@hipsterelectron literally all i wanna do is live my life, there is a stark difference between anything i might have said and what micay has accused me of. I haven't engaged with and don't with to engage in discussing the technical merits of who said what because

a) the ins and outs of what android derivatives have what features simply isn't a topic i'm familiar with
b) Elly being wrong in no way justifies having the official grapheneos account accuse me of such horseshit

I literally don't know about apple stealing stuff from grapheneos, it's weird for you to state that i do??

the point of my post was to vent, i don't think it's reasonable for a reply thread to make accusations like this, i would very much like to see the receipts tbh

Micay seems to treat any factual errors as a personal attack and it can be deeply exhausting to read, even more so when correcting errors devolves into accusations unprompted. I think grapheneos quite clearly misunderstood Thib's post, that's kinda understandable especially if they're american. The fundamental point is that he thinks europeans should escape our reliance on american big tech.

We (the pmos team) are on friendly terms with basically every other Linux Mobile project, including LineageOS and others, grapheneos are the sole exception. They genuinely are doing very cool stuff with android, unique stuff. We just don't get along because of these interpersonal issues... I don't know what you mean about me posting negatively about grapheneos, the worst i have said is probably something like "the tech is really cool, Micay seems to have some issues".

as for craftyguy, i have known him for 3-5 years (depends how you count), we have shared hotel rooms and generally spent a lot of time together. We have spent many many hours talking about everything from technical issues to community issues and personal stuff too. In my experience he handles good faith criticism with grace and appreciation - i really struggle to understand your issues here

The primary reason i interact with him is because we work on the same projects. You're welcome to elaborate i guess because i still don't understand why you have come to this conclusion about him :(

comparing me to marcan like that is troubling to me... I don't remember the last time i even thought about grapheneos, i have certainly never contributed. I'm happy to acknowledge that I may have been pretty dumb on twitter THREE years ago, when i was 21!! But i really don't believe that my good faith frustration in the moment should be misread as malicious participation in a harassment campaign. But you only say i've been "posting negatively", if you're gonna defend grapheneos in this context why won't you use their language?

as an aside, i have negative opinions about a lot of things, i have posted negatively about openrc a lot more than i have about grapheneos, and yet im on good terms with the maintainer (i think, been a while since we interacted), the difference is i post negatively about the tech. I don't and never have posted negatively about grapheneos tech, i only have positive things to say because as i mentioned it's not something im that familiar with.

@cas yeah fuck grapheneOS

i saw this shit 2 years ago with louis rossmann: https://youtu.be/4To-F6W1NT0

sorry to hear that its happening with u too

@Logical_Error @cas Louis Rossmann is apparently a KiwiFarms lurker and has harassed GOS in the past with his FUTO project thing which also platforms fascists.

Would not recommend watching

@fun @cas wait what? could you provide a source? this is the first time im hearing about this

@fun @Logical_Error @cas did FUTO even exist back when this video was created?

@Logical_Error @cas The KF part I just saw this in a fediverse thread

In any case FUTO is quite a questionable orga: https://drewdevault.com/2025/10/22/2025-10-22-Whats-up-with-FUTO.html

@zyx @Logical_Error @cas apparently they tried to 'fund' GrapheneOS then apparently blackmailed them and it didn't go well.

@zyx @Logical_Error @cas In any case I think Micay really needs help regarding his current state ASAP, from what I can tell it's only getting worse everyday...

@neil @kate @cas I’m not (currently) a GrapheneOS or postmarketOS user, however I’ve been seriously considering trying an alternative to my iPhone as a backup device and to keep abreast of developments.

From an outside perspective, it is noticeable how almost violently ‘protective’ the GrapheneOS developers are which, tbh, I find quite off putting. Not to mention having to buy a Google device to install it on.

@not_a_label @kate @cas

Yes :(

(I was blocked here by the GrapheneOS account ages ago, which I think was because I was talking about pmOS...)

@neil @kate @cas

You are/were the most vocal advocate for GrapheneOS as a daily driver - blocking you because you ‘dare’ to have thoughts about another OS just confirms my gut feel…. 😔

#postmarketOS here I come…

@not_a_label @kate @cas

I could be wrong, but I certainly don't complain about or bad mouth the OS, so I can only guess it is because of pmOS.

@Logical_Error @cas @zyx it actually feels sad to watch

@fun @Logical_Error @cas wait he's a kiwifarms lurker ???? what
do you have a source for that? i watch him occasionally and have always sorta gotten strange vibes from him but if that's true i'm definitely never watching him again

@b @Logical_Error @cas From further research he apparently has a KF account.

@fun @Logical_Error @cas aaaaa fuck ,,, well tysm for letting me know

@neil @not_a_label @kate @cas@treehouse.systems No, we've never blocked anyone for using or supporting another project. We understand you don't remember why you were blocked and blocks don't expire so it lasted forever.

You were blocked because you boosted/liked posts with inaccurate claims about our team including personal attacks. You likely didn't know the claims being made about us were fabricated and that it originated with a Kiwi Farms user. However, we chose to block groups of people supporting that.

@neil @not_a_label @kate Following the swatting attacks in 2023, Louis Rossmann live streamed trolling our lead developer in a DM after months of bullying towards him. He then made a video heavily based around fabrications and misrepresentations largely trying to justify what he was doing. He made up the story that he was scared of us compromising his device and posting about him. He pretended to stop using it. He leaked that they're autistic and leaked an email convo partially about Kiwi Farms.

@neil @not_a_label @kate Rossmann involved his buddies at Kiwi Farms (https://kiwifarms.st/members/larossmann.132201/) through that content which is made in a very similar way to Kiwi Farms posts targeting people which Rossmann was very familiar with already and had posted content about previously. We are not the only people Rossmann targeted this way by leaking emails, lying about those and claiming we're insane/delusional. He did nearly the exact same thing with Linus Tech Tips and others, which you can watch too.

@neil @not_a_label @kate Kiwi Farms made a thread collecting years of bullying, fabricated stories and harassment together following Rossmann's video. The people who made that actively talk to Rossmann on the site and support him. Rossmann brings up his grievances with organizations and individuals including Asahi Linux who were among the few to defend us from him instead of spreading his content. Rossmann makes sure to occasionally say he doesn't support what KF does, but he involves them.

@b @Logical_Error @cas It seems he also got KF involved in the harassment of Micay.

@neil @not_a_label @kate We had a disagreement with a postmarketOS developer over whether it was false marketing for Pine64 to promote claims that there was supposedly an open source baseband firmware replacement for their device. What it replaces is a strange proprietary fork of an ancient Android version on an extra CPU, not the baseband firmware.

What happened and which often happens is after a disagreement like this, the harassment content is linked and promoted in retaliation to that.

@neil @not_a_label @kate We didn't make it up and late 2023 is not actually that long ago. It appears the thread was deleted at some point but that doesn't change that most of the harm was already done.

A thread was posted misinterpreting a news item about Android and using it to proclaim GrapheneOS and similar projects are a dead end and that people should support postmarketOS. Many replies said our work is useless, counterproductive, helping the 'enemy' and some attacked our team too.

@kate @piegames @neil @cas

Hi.

I am trying to deescalate this situation, so that everybody feels safe talking it out.

Daniel backed off and deleted his posts at my explicit request so that we could make space to talk things out.

It would be appreciated if folks could respect that, as none of this is helpful in building a safe space for everyone to talk things out.

@fun @Logical_Error @cas He's not a lurker, he actively uses it and involved them with that harassment content catering to them.

https://kiwifarms.st/members/larossmann.132201/

@b @fun @Logical_Error @cas He's not a lurker, he actively uses it and involved them with that harassment content catering to them.

https://kiwifarms.st/members/larossmann.132201/

@Logical_Error @cas After engaging in months of bullying and supporting another person orchestrating harassment towards the lead developer of GrapheneOS, Louis trolled them about the situation in a direct message while live streaming it. Nearly everything he claims is this video is a fabrication or misrepresentation. You should rewatch it and pay close attention to what he's claiming. He didn't even actually stop using it, his subscribers figured out was his daily driver for almost a year after.

@Logical_Error @cas He had made numerous public attacks in our chat rooms, his live streams and his videos prior to that video. His narrative that it had to do with him posting a comment on a video is nonsense. The video he's supporting very clearly extraordinarily fabricated harassment content, and that's from the person who orchestrated their community harassing us to the point of trying to kill the lead developer of GrapheneOS at the time. That was not Kiwi Farms, it was a small YouTuber.

@Logical_Error @cas Kiwi Farms became involved because Rossmann has strong support there and actively uses the site with an identity verified account. He made this content using their tactics and approach which caters to them. In it, he's leaking a private chat where he's clearly trolling and feigning ignorance while live streaming it and then doing a monologue lying about all of it. He leaks that the person he's targeting is autistic, leaks other personal info and posted private emails too.

@Logical_Error @cas The email thread he posted included Kiwi Farms being discussed in terms of them harassing friends of the lead developer (at the time) of GrapheneOS. Louis Rossmann was already using the site and consuming their content. He posted videos referencing it. He knew exactly what he was doing by leaking the specific things he did.

The concept of Rossmann being scared of us replying to things he posted about us and therefore feeling he has to go on the offense is nonsense.

@Logical_Error @cas He was also clearly not scared to keep using GrapheneOS. He continued using it after all. He only switched to another OS many months later and he did it for perception reasons since people were complaining about him continuing to use it when he said he deleted it. What does he post in his video that you think is damning? He shows someone he has been tormenting with others in distress and trying to get him to stop. He actually got a ton of special treatment but wanted more.

@Logical_Error @cas He was angry we didn't make content with him, angry we didn't quickly accept money from FUTO and promote them but rather required that it be a no strings attached donation and other things. He has an existing issue with us from the start. We privately showed him the video with outrageously false claims clearly aimed at directing harassment towards us because we specifically asked about it due to seeing raids on our rooms, etc. His rooms even got raided for using it.

@Logical_Error @cas We didn't know Rossmann had started using Kiwi Farms, that his politics had wildly shifted and that he was working for a sketchy organization tied to people like Curtis Yarvin. We shared stuff with him we shouldn't have and from early on he was hostile towards our founder in particular and the rest of our team. He was using and supporting GrapheneOS as software. We don't need the $40k FUTO gave us and it doesn't make up for millions of dollars in damages.

@Logical_Error @cas Rossmann founded a for-profit T-Mobile MNVO (Phreeli) with the founder of Calyx, who was pushed out of Calyx. Calyx got sabotaged on his way out. It's very ironic considering that's a fake story both pushed about us about the Copperhead takeover attempt which directly led to the creation of CalyxOS by a former Copperhead dev working for them in 2018. CalyxOS users were left without updates and never got the 2025-06-05 patch level. They seem to not have the signing keys.

@fun @cas dug a bit

he is only active on kiwi farms on a thread that talks about him:
- https://archive.is/FMXGC
- https://archive.ph/JNmsF
- https://archive.ph/mfl4H

why he joined: https://social.treehouse.systems/@be_far/111915291106537851 (tl;dw: wants to engage if people talk about him. but if others say his alt attacked them, it's a genuine possibility now)

part of futo from aug 2022 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tca6xsBEuGw) to feb 2025 (first bullet) and left on good terms. he could partly be responsible for drew's accusations due to ...

@fun @cas ...his high role but may be unaware as drew's piece came out after

reason he joined futo (tl;dw wants to give $ to OSS): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIr8Bk8QOHE

i couldn't find anything he said that was explicitly fascist, but he seems to be surrounding himself with or is surrounded by fascist sympathizers. he also hasn't said anything about grapheneOS after posting that video (either on KF or youtube) that i saw

time will tell how this will play out. pretty concerning & ty for bringing it up

@Logical_Error @cas well having a KF account, no matter the reason, is a huge red flag.

@fun @cas yep agreed

@Logical_Error @cas and it is clear he might have done something for Micay to have his own thread there
(that's also why I'm concerned about his health)

@fun @cas tbh i only had time to look into louis's ties

for micay and louis, i spotted a couple things, but not enough to come to a conclusion. it seems micay is accusing louis but generally doesn't provide evidence of a direct connection to louis. its possible louis could be using an alt for all i know

i generally have no idea now. i would suggest micay talk to the police or a lawyer as this is beyond my expertise

personally, i regret saying "fuck grapheneos". its clear micay needs help

@fun @cas

for example, micay said the following (https://archive.is/ojFcl):

> We don't need the $40k FUTO gave us and it doesn't make up for millions of dollars in damages.

if true, this should be a lawsuit instead of being told to the public

i think that's all the time i have for this. i will leave it at that and wish micay the best